We All Love Lists
Posted by Trott
Yesterday, San Francisco Bay area alternative radio station Live 105 broadcast their "Top 105 American Rock Icons" based on votes at their Web site. Sure, it's stupid, but it's also fun. Who doesn't love lists?
I was wondering who the #1 artist would be. I guessed Bob Dylan. Wow, was I wrong. He came in at #7. He was beat out by Michael Jackson at #6 (what?!), Johnny Cash at #5 (reasonable), Frank Sinatra at #4 (rock icon?!), the Beastie Boys at #3 (what?!), Elvis Presley at #2 (reasonable) and Kurt Cobain at #1. Cobain! Of course! Especially given the station, how could I think it would have been Dylan instead of Cobain? Silly Trott.
You can view the list yourself and then write snide remarks in the comments section over here.
Yesterday, San Francisco Bay area alternative radio station Live 105 broadcast their "Top 105 American Rock Icons" based on votes at their Web site. Sure, it's stupid, but it's also fun. Who doesn't love lists?
I was wondering who the #1 artist would be. I guessed Bob Dylan. Wow, was I wrong. He came in at #7. He was beat out by Michael Jackson at #6 (what?!), Johnny Cash at #5 (reasonable), Frank Sinatra at #4 (rock icon?!), the Beastie Boys at #3 (what?!), Elvis Presley at #2 (reasonable) and Kurt Cobain at #1. Cobain! Of course! Especially given the station, how could I think it would have been Dylan instead of Cobain? Silly Trott.
You can view the list yourself and then write snide remarks in the comments section over here.
8 Comments:
When I was in Junior High, I LOVED the Doors. And of course, Morrison was God. He had died a full 12 years or so before I discovered the band. Ancient history in those days. Only now, 12 years doesn't seem that long. When did Cobain suck the gun?
Kurt Cobain died on April 5, 1994.
Jim Morrison (#55 on the list) died on July 3, 1971.
The only living people in the top five are the Beastie Boys. Why are they given a collective slot when everyone else, as far as my skimming can tell, is an individual? If they had to compete as individuals, none of them would have made the top ten.
The Beasties have never displayed any real individuality as far as each member is concerned. They always appear as a unit. It's unclear what each member contributes creatively. Also, no one has a clear personality. The personality that is famous is the group's collective personality. Since the list is about being an icon, and not a musician, writer, artist, or whatever, what counts is the image/identity. I take issue with the inclusion of Chuck D as an icon. Though he's the primary voice behind PE, the iconography of the group is the whole package - Flava Flav, the S1W's with the berets and steps, Professor Griff, Terminator X. Frankly, I think Chuck D's greatest achievment was assembling the group and avoiding focusing on one or another individual.
Other problematic individuals include:
- Billy Joe Armstrong. I think Green Day as a unit are more iconic.
- Jack White. The whole point of White Stripes is that they are a duo with an ambiguous relationship.
- Joey Ramone. Again, the Ramones are the icon I think. Only people paying close attention know his contribution or identity or image. In fact, the Ramones are the anti-Dead. Where the Dead was a group with significant contributions from many members (and no one in the group wrote any of the lyrics) that ends up with Garcia as the icon, the Ramones are really less communal, particularly in the later years, but appear as an integrated, cohesive unit the members of which all look alike.
-Anthony Kiedis. If he's number 29, Flea should be number 30 (or vice versa). See Frank Black and Kim Deal.
- Fred Durst. What? Top 105? That schmuck?
- Thurston Moore. Very cool, but not an icon. Again, Sonic Youth is the icon.
I was happy to see that there are a number of names I don't recognize at all. This means that I'm much closer to being a respectable, contributing member of society than I sometimes think I am.
I must admit that I do not like lists. Not at all.
They are a staple of all middle class publishing and broadcasting in the same way that middle class people always tell you big something is, rather than why it's beautiful or not-beautiful (beauty doesnt come furnished with numbers; height and width do).
Since middle class folks tend to want to have opinions but usually arent too conifident in their ability to articulate them -- they like to convert aesthetic feelings into handy numerical indexes of "quality." They can then engage in Freud's old school "narcissism of petty differences" in which the measn of judging are not debated so much as the arbitrary mechanism of selection.
This is not too much fun in my opinion. Theodor Adorno says roughly the same thing somewhere.
I love lists. I made a shopping list yesterday that was positively useful. I also like lists that inspire discussion and thought. The list we're discussing gave me a couple of ideas about Branding that I hadn't considered before. Also, I love when Rich combines exclamation points and question marks to denote shock.
oh well, lists probably are great
thats undoutedly why vh1s programming consists almost entirely of lists
Hmm. I don't have cable, so I'm not really familiar with VH1. What are some of the list titles? I bet you can learn a lot about the culture just from a list of lists. A meta-list, if you will.
I am opposed to this list on principle because I hate the word "icon" and "iconic." Both are wildly overused these days.
They are used where people might once have used "legend" or "legendary." That's understandable, as, strictly speaking, something that is "legendary" is by definition not necessarily true. But really, here are some other words that would work just as well: famous, star, celebrated, idol, revered, influential figure.
It is my belief that, following the original definition, all "icon" references must be to images. For instance, that famous photo of Che Guevarra may be said to be "iconic" but Che Guevarra himself is not an icon. He may be an idol, a star, etc... but he is not an icon.
Similarly, Kurt Cobain may be a renowned figure, a tragic hero, a great lost artist, even unfortunately an idol to millions, but he's not an icon.
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